Tuesday, June 28, 2011

Tuesday - wish it was Wednesday - cuz it would be my Friday

So yeah - another day another dolla and I am all out of gum or something. Today I want to talk about the game my brain is cooking up. I am just adding in ideas and figuring out something eventually. I have talked about the game I want to play and this is my thoughts into creating something. Will see if the rules work (will post them as I figure it out).

First of all I want the game to be very customizable character/model wise. That is the biggest thing as I feel it needs to allow the modeler to have a full range of creation and movement. You don't always have to do it that way - but it should at least give you the options. The issue with options is that you have to make sure everything works within the game and still provides some kind of balance.

That is the other factor in any game - you need to make sure there is some form of balance. This usually is easier to create if you keep the overall rules small enough but still deep enough to allow for variation. It also helps if you build the game completely at once as we all know adding stuff later can create deep pools of broken crap. So that is another thing we have to think about. Plus a balanced game can create a tactics game that is both fun and still competitive.

So with that out of the way the game idea is some kind of Hero based, party based, tactics driven fight fest. I really want the hero you play to be very important to the army but still let your army function without it. Yeah I know a balancing act that can sound cool as I type it out but not be cool if I play with it. So let's look at some other games that function as hero based games. 40k has the HQ that leads and can activate things but really a lot of the time you don't need the jerk to function. Warmachine is all straight hero based with the death of the Jerk meaning you lose the game as you guys turn off and run away. Magic has super wizards fighting it out over expensive pieces of cardboard. I think all of these have options that I feel could easily be tweaked and changed to create a really cool game. Or so I hope.

The initial thought on the game would just be a rule's shell that you could use any models for. There are a ton of manufacturers out there so any initial thought into creating models etc is thrown out the window as I would rather have a solid rule set that works. I want there to be no Grey Areas as that is one of the most frustrating thing to deal with - people that just want to try and fight the rules and fight you at the same time. I also want to limit some of the luck factor in dice rolling - which usually means using more dice to activate the rules in the game. Rolling one dice is a problem as the averages can be screwed up while rolling two would generate the target average number and allow you to create the targeted system a lot easier. I like how Warmachine does it as you feel most of the time your guys work like they are supposed too. Armor and dodging is mitigated with the rolling and I think it works pretty well. I just wish they had more plastic models haha.

So lets go back to what I am thinking about for whatever I want to call my game - Goatboy's Awesome Haus of Damage!

1 - Hero based - I want the main hero to be customizable, effective, but not make it the end of your game if it kicks it.
2 - I want to mitigate the bad rolling by moving to more dice rolled at a time. Helps create the averages
3 - I want solid core rules that don't leave questions or if they do I can answer them quickly

So that is the basic start. So let's look at a Hero thought.

Hero - King Fancy Pants! He needs some stats as any game is based on numbers so lets look at creating some.

Aim - How they shoot
Melee - How they fight
Resist - How they can survive stuff coming at them - some kind of option to ignore or lessen damage
Health - How much they can take
Armor - How much can be ignored before they take health damage
Move - How fast are you

Simple and easy - a small range of stats means you can utilize Universal Rules to try and create new avenues of game thought. Does it work? Who the hell knows as this is just the brain storm phase. I don't like a lot of stats as I feel it jumbles things up. A lot of things can be combined into one option and allow for a much easier to get the basics rule system. Why does Magic work? It is pretty simple. Simple means more people can jump in and creating the correct avenues for depth is the key to creating a neat game.

So let's look - Aim is the basic thought set to hit things. I am thinking of using 2 dice to represent how you are trying to do something. An average roll on 2 dice is 7 so we want to create things towards this average. We can push the dice up and down based on that and utilize rules for trying to hit something. Let's say something has an amazing dodge ability - add 2 points to your Aim score when trying to hit. Little things like that are easy to add in and can create some dynamic in the game play. We could also use options like stand and aim to add stuff too. Little things like that. So let's say the average to hit roll is a 8. Tough to hit at times but with options you can move it up and down.

Melee - Pretty simple. It is how you hit things when you get mad and want to throw a angry fist dancing party. The options can be the same with Aim and this is just another way to add a stat that isn't the same.

Resist - This one is interesting as you can figure out ways you can ignore special damage. Or have some kind of special option to ignore stuff. When damage is rolled at you. It is just a thought.

Health/Armor - How much donkey punching you can take and how strong your man chest is. Lots of thought on this.

So the first thing is to create a basic and see if the math works as you move around. That is where the move field works and we can go from there. Just basic stuff. Then I can add in the whistles and doodads.

So yeah - these are some basic thoughts. I will write up more as I figure things out. I got an idea for the background, world design that should be neat so will see.

Thoughts? Ideas? Am I dumb for thinking about all of this?


Tylermenz said...

I think a big thing about having heroes be awesome while stile vulnerable is looking at fantasy books and the battles in them.

I feel that any strong guy (ie an awesome hero king god) should be very good in a one on one type of situation, but at the same time be vulnerable to a larger number of people surrounding and attacking him.

Maybe a rule where heroes can only attack one or maybe two guys a turn? They will almost definitely kill them, but they cannot just wipe out a squad.

Also, a combined attack rule for regular guys might help to even the odds. Something like Warmachines combined attack where a group can team up against one guy that they may not be able to kill 1 on 1.

A final thought might be a combined attack and defense type system for melee combat. For instance you might have 4 melee points. You could attack 4 times, but would have no way to defend yourself, or you could go fully defensive and have 4 chances to block incoming attacks.

Color Blind Painter said...

I might suggest moving from a D6 system, into a D10 system. Using two D6 is a good start, but if utilizing 2D10 or a D20 you can create a great deal of difference between characters and have more room for physical stat boosts if you want to integrate that into creation. Id suggest 2D10 so that you can have less of a chance of a 1. You could get a 1 but then get a 10 so its not so much a failure.

I dont know the average for 2D10 though...

As for the stat blocks, they seem to work. I would substitute resist for Agility and Durability though. This will provide two things. It can provide the ability for stat,impariment affects from spells/nanomachines/glue guns/etc. a defense against those. While agility can provide a defense against physical things such as shooting and explosions. They will be a static defense that must be met to be overcome while armor will reduce physical damages, resistance or something can reduce non-physical.

This may get too complicated, or it may be simpler depending on how the stats are used.

Aim -
Melee -
Strength? - Do you want a stat to determine physical abilities for damage?
Agility -
Durability -
Health -
Mental Resistance - This could also double as their leadership stat.
Armor Resistance -
Move -

Example character of a 2D10 System.
Captain Major Whacamole
Aim - 8 (8+2D10-Enemy Agility= Hit if number exceeds 0)
Melee - 10(10+2D10-Enemy Agility= Hit if number exceeds 0)
Strength? - 6 (Damage could be worked out much like Warmachines, Strength plus bonus from weapon to exceed enemies armor. Or it could give a negative to the enemies armor saving roll if the enemy will utilize armor saving roles.)
Agility - 13
Durability - 15
Health - This number will be wildly different depending on which way you run with damage. If taking more than one wound per turn is possible from a single attack then more wounds, if only 1 wound is possible, then less wounds.
Mental Resistance - 15
Armor Resistance - Full Plate/Power Armor(17)
Move - Slow Heavy Infantry(4"), Medium Infantry(5"), Light Infantry(6")

Crosser Modelling said...

I agree with the D10 idea, you said you wanted to roll more dice at one time to mitigate bad luck? If your using two D6 per roll then you won't be able to roll many rolls at once (only as many as you have colour pairs of dice!) So a D10/D12 seems like a great way round this. If your not familiar with the Inquisitor rules take a look! They could give you alot of inspiration in doing things with a touch more realism and with more individually important models.

Captain Kellen said...

I'm thinking d10 for your system. It gives you a greater spread for 'attributes' and lets you get numbers between 0 and 100 for other abilities. Plus, d10 are easy to get.

Here's a 'well duh' example...

A regular ole guardsmen in a d10 system probably has an aim of about 5 while an ork probably about a 2 and a marine an 8.

In the d6 system every pip is about 16%. That, to me, is a hefty change from one pip to the next where the d10 is only 10% change.

However, when you add in the 0 thru 100 thingy then we can get 'special abilities' to help customize our hero's...

So Captain Kellen can aim with an 8 or less and carry two storm bolters of death since his special ability puts his strength in the 70- 80 range... or something like that. My thoughts are that hero's can have the same special ability or customization but to varing degree's.

Just some thoughts from the corner...


Josh said...

Interesting point about d10's being able to generate numbers between 1 and 100. This could provide for more customization: Maybe troops are more static, with scores that stay in the 1-10 range but reflect 10% increments, while you can get down to nitty gritty customization with your heroes with increments as small as 1% if you want.

Beamo said...

So many "hero" games out there have the big guy that just grinds through enemies.

Why not have a leader that is more a support type guy, that passes those kinds of powers onto his underlings. If he dies, you don't lose the game, but you are at a severe disadvantage by losing the buffs he provided and the curses he placed on opponents, creating a pretty strong incentive to keep him alive and well, as well as killing your opponent's.

Thomas aka Goatboy said...

Thanks for all the comments - will read em more as I get ready for my next post.

The hero is a buffer - your other parts are the workers - that is always my thought. I always preferred a guy who is a force multiplier not just a force itself.

Brian said...

Got time for a game on friday at wargamescon? I'm lookin for a rematch sucka! :P

Brian said...

D10 is way better than D6. It's a shame. Maybe that will be a suprise for 6th edition! I know highly unlikely.

Thomas aka Goatboy said...

I am hoping to have some time - I know Friday I will be doing the paint judging so I don't kill myself during the weekend. haha.

What time you guys getting in on Friday again? Just to refresh my brains!

Ginger Kid said...

Hey dude this sounds like a crazy love child produced from bumpy cuddles by necromunda and inquisitor.......... IT SOUNDS AWESOOOOOME. I especially love the idea of "here's the stats now make your own bloody character" as I love to convert and kit bash. Hurry up and get it done dude, I wanna play.

Brian said...

It says we land at 12:16. Thanks for picking us up. If you have any interest in Beer we'll hook you up if you drop us by a shop. I'll check out google to find someplace on the way that has the goods. The boyz only drink the best.

Maybe JWolf will have time for a quick game if you don't.

Henrik said...

Still wondering why not any other game has picked up on the "cheat fate" idea from Malifaux. Shouldn't be impossible to implement in a dicegame.