Thursday, June 6, 2013

Goatboy - Yeah I'm Late



Mother in law was in town for a week so that kept things slow.  I did get some DP's done with funky names but I don't have the pics with me to post.  So meh.  I have the 3rd one built and it is a doozy with some design aspects borrow from Kenny at Next Level Painting.  It is making me want to redo some of mine haha - but I won't for now.  I still need to figure out Lord of Changes.  Blargh...

Ok - so those interesting in Daemons.  I think Assault can still work in 6th edition.  You have to work at it and design lists that can use and abuse it - thus my new ideas.  I am planning on building these and testing them out to see if they can survive Tau and other armies.  I think Daemons will do better versus Eldar then Tau as Tau just have the fire power to pound you into the ground.  Eldar seemed designed to work well versus Crons and I think will see a dip in the robotic warriors.  The two new books aren't really designed to take allies well when you feel most of the other additions just dilute what your army does well.  Will see. 

I am just happy we have a ton of new books that shift the meta game and make games move away from what we were seeing - cron + something etc.  I do hate the Tau Broadsides as they are so brutal.  You only need one unit most of the time as the rest of the army does their job pretty well - delivering lots of bullets.  So with that in mind - I have thought of a list that tries to hit on all fronts.  I have a few building ideas - so will see if it works.  The idea is to not push in any one direction - instead try to focus on engaging, confusing, and hopefully beating up my opponents army.

First bits - we go into the HQ - I have 4 thoughts and with testing I can figure it out.

First - Anti Flyer Buff army

HQ: Warlord - Daemon Prince of Slaanesh, Wings, Armor, Greater Gift X 2, Lvl 3
HQ: Daemon Prince of Slaanesh, Wings, Armor, Greater Gift X 2, Lvl 3
Total = 660pts

Again you all know why I like DP's of Slaanesh.  The Lash of Despair is so good and when mixed with Iron arm you become a vehicle popping, instant death causing asshole of doom.  But that is all based on if you get that buff.  When you don't, you suck a bit.  You can do alright - you are just not nearly as much of a pain in the ass to cover that point cost.  Plus you can get killed by Str 10 nonsense.  The bonus of Endurance is pretty good as you can dump it on the dogs that will be coming later.  Still - it is a thought as it gives you some decent anti flyer.

Second - Greater Daemon Party 4000!

HQ: Warlord - Lord of Change, Lvl 3, Greater Gift X 2, Lesser Gift
HQ: Lord of Change, Lvl 3, Greater Gift X 2, Lesser Gift
Total = 610pts

You have a cheaper set of HQ's that are immune to Str 10 hits - you get an extra wound at the very least.  They are str 8 in combat which means you don't need to smash as often versus other MC's and you have access to some neat buffs with Prescience and Precognition.  You are losing the Portal Glyph but my armies are starting to have 4 troop choices so it isn't nearly an issue.  Still it is a thought to drop one gift and the lesser to roll it once.  Plus the book is decent even though I am really good at rolling that 1 or 2.  It is still pretty expensive.

Third - Herald Combo!!!

HQ: Warlord - Herald of Khorne, Locus of Wrath, Greater Gift, Lesser Gift, Juggernaut
HQ: Herald of Khorne, Locus of Wrath, Greater Gift, Lesser Gift, Juggernaut

HQ: Herald of Tzeentch, Lvl 2, Locus of Conjuration
HQ: Herald of Tzeentch, Lvl 2, Locus of Conjuration
HQ: Herald of Tzeentch, Lvl 2, Locus of Conjuration

Total = 595pts

This is the Troop combo list you will see when I break down the Troop choices.  The heralds of Tzeentch go with larger troop units to give the unit the ability to remove models with massed Str 6 shooting.  The Gift combo on the Herald of Khorne is there to give him extra attacks as needed with some specialist weapon love.

Fourth - Balance?


HQ: Warlord - Lord of Change, Lvl 3, Greater Gift X 2, Lesser Gift

HQ: Herald of Khorne, Locus of Wrath, Lesser Gift, Greater Gift, Juggernaut
HQ: Herald of Khorne, Locus of Wrath, Lesser Gift, Greater Gift, Juggernaut

Total = 615pts

This one tries to balance it out.  The two heralds are built to add into two dog units while the LOC is based on what he rolls for spells.  If he needs to move forward with Precog or hang around and be annoying.  If he gets Perfect Timing he can remove basic units with Warpfire as wel so that is a good thing. 
Once we look at HQ - here are the troop choices for each list.  This way you get a better idea of where I think it needs to go.  The portal is a help but you can't get away with two small troop choices now.  You need at least 4 to get enough points or complete enough objectives.   Troops work out to be something along these lines for each.

3 sets of 10-12 batchs of Pink horrors and 1 to 2 sets of Plague Bearers.  This gives me enough to cover the list and I think 12 Horrors is the correct troop choices.  The reason I go this way is that - they always do something.  If they get assaulted they can blow up and start to kill the unit that punched you.  If they go to ground a lot of the time they will have a 3 up that they reroll 1's.  That means you only really fail on 2's and I hear terminator armor saves are pretty spicey.  Plus you can always roll for the power and half of the time you get the beam - which is pretty good at killing random things like Vehicles and Terminators.  The one set of Plague Bearers is there to DP and go to ground on something in ruins.  Fun times.

From there we look at what the Daemon List needs most of the time.  They need a unit that takes a few turns to remove so it can hold up your opponents army in their back field.  I think Dogs are the perfect answer for this as you get a ton of wounds in an annoying body.  Yes I know the Seekers can do more damage but I don't really want to do damage most of the time.  I would rather just hold that unit or units up as the rest of my army gets into position to punch the crap out of it.

Here is the current FA builds for these lists.

FA: Flesh Hounds of Khorne X 20 - 320pts -

This is for the dual DP's or Dual GD lists.  You can't afford to get two and this units are designed to do more then just punch stuff. They also keep other Flying DP's playing fair as they fill up an area and make it hard for them to land and cause problems. 

For those with dual Khorne Heralds I usually look at this as the build out.

FA: Flesh Hounds of Khorne X 15 - 240pts
FA: Flesh Hounds of Khorne X 15 - 240pts
Total = 480pts

This gives you two units to run around nad punch stuff.  You can do this with the dual MC lists as well - but I think it might just be better to have another Grinder instead of the two units.  Testing will tell me as I play around and find all the old dogs I used for the Space Goats.

Finally we end with the Heavy slot.  I have been thinking Grinders are good - but the issue with Nurgle ones is they just sit and stay - instead of forcing the opponent to do something.  This leads me to look at the Torrent flamer ones as they will help remove some of those pesky fish heads as well as bring an annoying threat that isn't limited by its BS or the scatter dice.

Heavy: Soul Grinder of Slaanesh, Baleful Torrent - 170pts

This guy will be moving fast, keeping up with the dogs and just being a shit.  I know I love the flying DP army - but Tau and Eldar are going to put a hurt on it.  We have to look at more buffs and abilities to help keep the rest of the army engaged and murdering things.  Plus it is immune to a lot of anti infantry shooting you are going to see all over the place - and str 7 won't do that much as well.  Pretty sweet eh?  I didn't go with Nurgle because you can't run with them.  This leaves them just sitting in the back and not threatening the opponent.  Having that turn 2 charge is extremely important to Daemons so you must set up for it.

Lists for those interested.

List 1
HQ: Warlord - Daemon Prince of Slaanesh, Wings, Armor, Greater Gift X 2, Lvl 3
HQ: Daemon Prince of Slaanesh, Wings, Armor, Greater Gift X 2, Lvl 3
Troops: Pink Horrors X 10
Troops: Pink Horrors X 10
Troops: Pink Horrors X 10
Troops: Plague Bearers X 10
FA: Flesh Hounds of Khorne X 20
Heavy: Soul Grinder of Slaanesh, Baleful Torrent
Heavy: Soul Grinder of Slaanesh, Baleful Torrent
Heavy: Soul Grinder of Slaanesh, Baleful Torrent
List 2
HQ: Warlord - Lord of Change, Lvl 3, Greater Gift X 2, Lesser Gift
HQ: Lord of Change, Lvl 3, Greater Gift X 2, Lesser Gift
Troops: Pink Horrors X 12

Troops: Pink Horrors X 12
Troops: Pink Horrors X 11
Troops: Plague Bearers X 10
FA: Flesh Hounds of Khorne X 20
Heavy: Soul Grinder of Slaanesh, Baleful Torrent
Heavy: Soul Grinder of Slaanesh, Baleful Torrent
Heavy: Soul Grinder of Slaanesh, Baleful Torrent
List 3
HQ: Warlord - Herald of Khorne, Locus of Wrath, Greater Gift, Lesser Gift, Juggernaut

HQ: Herald of Khorne, Locus of Wrath, Greater Gift, Lesser Gift, Juggernaut
HQ: Herald of Tzeentch, Lvl 2, Locus of Conjuration
HQ: Herald of Tzeentch, Lvl 2, Locus of Conjuration
HQ: Herald of Tzeentch, Lvl 2, Locus of Conjuration
Troops: Pink Horrors X 12

Troops: Pink Horrors X 12
Troops: Pink Horrors X 12
Troops: Plague Bearers X 10
FA: Flesh Hounds of Khorne X 15
FA: Flesh Hounds of Khorne X 15
Heavy: Soul Grinder of Slaanesh, Baleful Torrent
Heavy: Soul Grinder of Slaanesh, Baleful Torrent

List 4
HQ: Warlord - Lord of Change, Lvl 3, Greater Gift X 2, Lesser Gift

HQ: Herald of Khorne, Locus of Wrath, Lesser Gift, Greater Gift, Juggernaut
HQ: Herald of Khorne, Locus of Wrath, Lesser Gift, Greater Gift, Juggernaut
Troops: Pink Horrors X 12
Troops: Pink Horrors X 12
Troops: Pink Horrors X 12
Troops: Plague Bearers X 10
FA: Flesh Hounds of Khorne X 15
FA: Flesh Hounds of Khorne X 15
Heavy: Soul Grinder of Slaanesh, Baleful Torrent
Heavy: Soul Grinder of Slaanesh, Baleful Torrent

So the question is - should I test them?

Paint, art etc comes next week.  This weekend is Wargames con so I just don't have nearly the time to paint up stuff as quickly as I want.  Oh - look for an announcement about heading up to FTW/Spikey Bits the end of this month.  Woohoo.

4 comments:

Camden Jansen said...

After playing the flying circus army quite a bit lately, I have found that I do like the slaneesh demon princes quite a lot. But, something I really like is the keeper of secrets. She protects the back-line of your army extremely hard and can get super-op telepathy powers. She can also run just as fast as the Slaneesh soulgrinders (she also hates Eldar). I think that you are on to something using the heralds, but if I were to make a list with those ideas I'd go with:

+++ 1849pt Codex: Chaos Daemons
+ HQ + (680pts)
* Daemonic Heralds (420pts)
* Herald of Khorne (155pts)
1xGreater Reward
1xLesser Reward
Greater Locus of Wrath(25pts)
Juggernaut (45pts)
* Herald of Tzeentch (120pts)
Exalted Locus of Conjuration (25pts)
Psyker Level 3 (50pts)
* Herald of Tzeentch (150pts)
1xExalted Reward (Book on Hounds unit)
Psyker Level 3 (50pts)

* Keeper of Secrets (260pts)
2x D6 Daemonic Reward (40pts)
Psyker Level 3 (50pts)

+ Troops + (305pts)

* Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (95pts)
Iridescent Horror (5pts)
10x Pink Horrors (90pts)

* Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (95pts)
Iridescent Horror (5pts)
10x Pink Horrors (90pts)

* Plaguebearers of Nurgle (115pts)
10x Plaguebearers (90pts)
* Plagueridden (25pts)
1xGreater Reward (Bale Sword) (20pts)

+ Fast Attack + (224pts)

* Flesh Hounds of Khorne (224pts)
14x Flesh Hounds (224pts)


+ Heavy Support + (660pts)

* Daemon Prince (Heavy) (330pts)
2x Greater Reward
Daemonic Flight (40pts)
Warp-forged Armour (20pts)
Daemon of Slaanesh (85pts)
Psyker Level 3 (75pts)

* Daemon Prince (Heavy) (330pts)
2xGreater Reward (40pts)
Daemonic Flight (40pts)
Warp-forged Armour (20pts)
Daemon of Slaanesh (85pts)
Psyker Level 3 (75pts)

What do you think? Is there any way to get heralds of Tzeen for less than $40? (some sort of conversion on normal horrors maybe?)

Thomas aka Goatboy said...

I think Daemons need to maximize its threat to hit on turn 2 - that is how they will win in the upcoming shooting fest that is 40k right now.

I am thinking of making it 3 grinders and only one flying DP or GD. Will see. It is almost worth it to just run 2 Thirsters.

Syaoran said...

The second list is very competitive based on my experience. I ran a list very similar except I ran Grim and Port on both the LOC's, I used 4 units of horrors as PB just don't seem to cut it these days with all the ignore cover weapons floating around and 20 seekers instead of the hounds.

Even tho I did rather well with this list, I just liked the idea of running 5 MC's and I know that Tau could ruin my day, I still like the idea of a small compact army.

Lisl and Horton in Japan said...

I have been playing a Flesh hound and Soul Grinder list and it works very well.

Grinders with the flamer are awesome, and the khorne dogs ruin most everyone's game plan with a turn 1 or 2 charge.

Have you considered double bloodthirster for HQ? I have found it to be effective.